This is a sad situation for a couple who find themselves in a maelstrom of immigration difficulties caused by a less than sensible choice some time previously.
QUESTION
I am a permanent resident in Hong Kong and am planning to marry my girlfriend. My girlfriend is in detention prior to removal. She’s from the Philippines. I wanted to get a sponsored dependant visa for her after we get married. The problem we have is that she is now under detention in Hong Kong under Immigration Ordinance section 32. Due to the borrowing of a passport to others to use. She have already signed a letter with the Immigration Department that she will not come back to Hong Kong and will soon need to go back to Philippines. What is the chance of me getting her back once we get married?
ANSWER
Yes, I can state that you find yourself in a very difficult situation here. The likelihood of you being able to persuade the Immigration Department that your relationship is bona fide and has merits in of itself, coupled with the problems associated with her manifestly poor immigration record under express undertakings that she will not seek to return to Hong Kong, it’s, in my opinion, that the likelihood of you being able to bring his young lady back to Hong Kong on the dependent visa sponsored by you is probably very slim indeed.
VisaGeeza.Ai – Making Hong Kong Immigration A Lot Easier
In this short piece I discuss how the Hong Kong Immigration Department assess the bona fides of a sponsor seeking Hong Kong dependant visa permissions for his/her family to join him/her in the HKSAR.
Over the last 20 years or so I have coined a number of phrases in Hong Kong immigration parlance.
‘Roof-Over-Head-Food-On-Table’ describes a situation where, if you are seeking to sponsor a loved one in order to join you in Hong Kong as either a dependent visa holder or, in certain circumstances, a prolonged visitor visa holder, the sponsor that’s going to be supporting that application needs to be of sufficient financial means to be able to provide a home to the loved one under the visa permissions, and also to be able to take care of their emotional, educational and financial and sustenance needs.
So, in that regard, the Immigration Department are looking to see that the sponsor literally can put a roof over the head of their loved one and food on the table of their loved one, in addition to all the other stuff that I mentioned as well.
VisaGeeza.Ai – Making Hong Kong Immigration A Lot Easier
Is there a ‘minimum waiting time’ between a rejected Hong Kong employment visa application and then ‘trying again’?
QUESTION
I have a visa question, I got an offer from a recruitment company in July, they applied the working visa for me, but it got rejected by the end of August.
Now I have a new offer from another recruitment company, they will try to apply the visa for me, if they phrase my qualification better this time, is that possible to be approved?
Is it a good idea to apply again within 6 months?
Will my first, rejected Hong Kong employment visa application be a problem the second time around?
ANSWER
Thanks for your question. It’s an interesting topic that hasn’t really been raised in this guide before, so I appreciate you putting it forward to us for sharing on the blog.
There is no minimum waiting time between employment visa applications. The Immigration Department considers such applications on their own merits, and if you’ve been refused for one employer and you’re seeking to make another application, this time for an alternate employer, then the Immigration Department will consider, as I say, that second application entirely on its own merits, irrespective of what passed previously.
So, yes, you’re not going to be advantaged at all in any meaningful sense by, say, waiting for six months. So if you have a job offer and you’re eminently qualified for that job even though you’ve been refused previously, it doesn’t automatically follow that you should wait before your next application.
But I think the real question at play here is the reason why you were denied. From your question, it’s difficult to understand what the circumstances are that could have led to that refusal; it may be, for example, that because you don’t have a university degree, the Immigration Department don’t deem you to be a professional.
On the other hand, you may have a university degree, but you may not have at least two years post graduation working experience in the managerial or supervisory capacity. These are two good reasons for why you might have been denied the first time around. And, even if you make a second application with a new employer, those challenges will not be overcome. They still subsist and the Immigration department will not be deeming you as a professional, so you won’t get approved.
On the other hand, you may be a professional under the policy, but the Immigration Department may not like the sponsor, or they may not believe that the sponsor is a suitable and credible employer.
The sponsor may, for example, have a track record of securing employment visas for a very large number of expatriates with almost no local employment opportunities being created, and they may feel that the local workforce is not being potentially advantaged as a result of allowing an employer to continuously sponsor on an unlimited basis foreign nationals for employment visa permissions.
I’m just stabbing in the dark here, of course, because I don’t have any detailed information as to what the reasons might be. But in very general terms, the refusal could lie at your feet, it could lie at the feet of your old employer; and then when you take an application for a new employee to the Immigration Department, it may be that you’ll be successful; that time you could have been denied also on the grounds of compensation arrangements, not receiving the necessary minimums to be deemed a professional under the policy.
So lots of things in play that could impact on your initial application, and then you could find themselves still at play in your subsequent application. So, all things considered, no, don’t be restrained from making a subsequent application because you think your chances will be improved as a result of you waiting six months.
The Hong Kong Immigration Department offer ‘liberalised’ immigration arrangements for foreign nationals and mainland students who graduate from Hong Kong tertiary education institutes (“IANG”). If you have a job in Hong Kong one year after graduation, then the extension process is all but a rubber stamping exercise. But what if you wish to start a business investment instead?
First Published August 20, 2013, still of interest today
QUESTION
Hello Stephen,
I have already graduated in summer 2012, and now I stay in Hong Kong by “1 year IANG extension” visa, and I need to get a visa before December 2013 which I can stay in Hong Kong.
The situation is I want to start a service business in a unique niche not presently served in Hong Kong.
I have got to know how to set up a company here, and after I read your Hong Kong Visa Handbook, I have better understanding.
The Visa Handbook is useful.
Based on your knowledge, what is the minimum monetary injections/investment to the company that I can extend my visa in Hong Kong in December 2013?
In other words, what is number is safe?
I have heard a successful case that a Chinese young girl set up her business in Hong Kong by HKD1,000,000 after finished her master program and she have extended her visa in the name of her own company.
Second question is, there are only three months that allow me to set up my business, is it even more difficult?
Let’s assume that, hopefully, I will register my company and start my business in November, will Hong Kong immigration reject my extension easily in December 2013, for reasons like the company is just started, or there are only few documents and contracts to prove the company can contribute to Hong Kong economy?
I am eager to start my own business in Hong Kong, instead of working for a company.
I hope you can give me some suggestions, thank you.
ANSWER
If you have a period of stay in Hong Kong that was afforded to you by the Immigration Arrangements for Non-Local Graduates (IANG), and you’re seeking to have that limited stay extended on the strength that you have started your own business here, then in order to achieve that you need to pass the approvability test for a business investment visa, which is you need to show that you are in a position to make a substantial contribution to the economy of Hong Kong.
That, of course, requires you to have things in your business plan that includes the potential for the creation of local employment opportunities and also that you’re going to have suitable business premises and that the nature of your business can be said to benefit Hong Kong in some discernible and tangible way.
And, therefore,the nature of your business itself is as important as also having the ability to create local jobs and be homing the business in the correct fashion. But to turn to your question about what the minimum or magic number is from a cash perspective, well, the truth is that there isn’t a particular minimum and there isn’t a particular magic number. It depends on the business that you’re intending to establish, or indeed you have established and whether those funds are sufficient to give effect to that business plan. From your question, it appears that you know someone who was successful in this endeavour with a million HKD, and I would say that, that’s not surprising. I think a million HKD is quite a good amount of capital to have to give effect to any kind of reasonable business plan; but as for what would work in your situation, again, I’m reluctant to put any particular number on it because it really does depend on all of the circumstances. But it is fair to say that based on my experience, if you have less than, say, a quarter of a million or maybe HKD300,000, you may struggle persuading the Immigration Department that your business is properly financed in order for your plan to really give effect to the potential for you to make that substantial contribution.
In relation to the timing aspect in your question, if you are planning to start your business in November and then expect the Immigration Department to grant you an extension based on that business in December, I think you’ll be very hard pressed to allow the Immigration Department to approve you in those circumstances because getting a business investment visaapproved is one of the hardest challenges in Hong Kong Immigration.
Now, as a non-local graduate, you are afforded a certain kind of positive approach to such applications. But, the challenge of showing that you can make a substantial contribution to the economy of Hong Kong when you’re expecting the Immigration Department to consider that over the course of just a few short weeks, immediately prior to the expiry of your current limit of stay, is probably a little bit too much of an ask; so my strong advice is that if you’re going to do this, don’t wait until then but start now.
VisaGeeza.Ai – Making Hong Kong Immigration A Lot Easier
Circumstances sometimes conspire against foreign national residents here who find themselves in a quandary as to whether or not their continuous ordinary residence here has been broken due to decisions made (voluntary or otherwise) earlier on in their lives in Hong Kong. In this situation, will an application for the Right of Abode fail?
QUESTION
“I have been resident in Hong Kong for 6 years and 2 months. First as a dependent and now under non local graduates scheme. I have had a residence throughout this period, owned a property for part of the period (sold due to divorce). But I was studying in Beijing for 2 years during this time and returning to Hong Kong during holidays and at least every 2 months. I also have a child in Hong Kong who lives with my ex wife who visits me regularly. Will my period of residence only be deemed to start when I returned to Hong Kong in February 2011 and re-secured an employment visa? Essentially, has the period I was travelling in and out on a visitor visa stopped my period of residence for Right of Abode purposes even though I was ordinarily resident under the plain English meaning. You may assume I have all necessary paperwork to show tenancies, bank details, tax returns etc.”
ANSWER
In order to qualify for the Right of Abode in Hong Kong, you have to show that you’ve been continuously an ordinarily resident for a period of not less than seven years. You need to upheld a residence visa throughout all of this time, and any absences that manifested themselves during those seven years need to have been of a merely temporary nature, as evidenced by what you leave behind to return back to at the end of your temporary stay abroad.
So in this question, the issue is whether the two years that you spent not holding a residence visa, being outside of Hong Kong, studying in Beijing, and then ultimately returning back to Hong Kong, whether that in your life circumstances, together with the fact that you have family in Hong Kong, or there’s a child that you’ve been returned back to throughout those two years, will that time spent in Beijing serve to break the continuity of ordinary residence for the purposes of that Right of Abode application?
In my experience, the answer is I think that you’ve probably broken your continuity of residence. Unfortunately, although the concept of permanent residency is granted on the strength of the notion of settlements, and you certainly have an opportunity to put forward an argument once you’ve been here for seven years to suggest that even though you did spend a couple of years on a temporary sojourn abroad, you did have everything in place throughout that time to suggest, through your pattern of behaviour, and the fact that you returned back to Hong Kong once you set to a complete, that that time spent away did not in fact break the continuity of ordinary residents.
But it’s one of those situations where you only know once you have made your application. The challenge, I think, is going to be that the Immigration Department is probably going to apply the hard and fast rule against you. Suggest that because you didn’t have a residence visa during those two years, and perhaps the circumstances in your life precluded you from possessing that residence in any event or by suspect.
But my earnest advice is get to seven years and give it a try. It doesn’t cost you anything. Application argue forthrightly that you were settled in Hong Kong throughout all that time. You did have a child, you did come by, it was just that you didn’t have the necessary circumstances to avail you with a residence visa for Hong Kong and consequently you were in a position to possess one.
That’s the argument that I had at the moment usually only a time spent in Hong Kong as a visitor during the state of administered flux. But give it a try, good luck.
VisaGeeza.Ai – Making Hong Kong Immigration A Lot Easier
A frequently experienced conundrum: How can a foreign company temporarily sponsor Hong Kong employment visa permissions for its employees and contractors who need to work here in pursuit of a commercial arrangement which is of an indefinite or fixed duration here?
QUESTION
How can one visit and deliver short-term (typically 1-5 days duration) training courses in Hong Kong on behalf of an international training company headquartered in New York and which has a local office in Hong Kong.
The training would be delivered course-by-course under an ‘umbrella’ contract with the Hong Kong company i.e. no direct employee relationship, on an episodic basis to the Hong Kong office through an overseas Limited Company in South Africa whilst travelling on a South African Passport.
What visa and application process would be applicable? It seems that different countries tend to treat this quite differently with some granting a business visa on written request from the host company, or in other cases allow this type of activity under a short-term waiver e.g. Singapore.
I am sure this must be a common situation, but I can’t see how this can be handled. Hong Kong Business Visas appear to stipulate you can’t work or provide a service or am I misreading the intention? I hope that I have provided enough detail and it is succinct enough.
Thanks very much in advance and looking forward to your reply.
ANSWER
Yes, this really is a conundrum where you as a foreign company have received a contract to deliver services on the ground in Hong Kong, and now you’re attempting to understand what immigration permissions are suitable in your circumstances; and of course the Immigration Department’s website is not particularly lucid as to how you go about doing this and in actual fact you need to engage in a little bit of fancy footwork to achieve the immigration outcome that you’re looking for, but it is completely doable.
So first, let’s just deal with the issue of temporary visitor visa permissions and your ability to possibly deliver the training under the visitor visa. As a visitor you are not allowed to take up employment, whether paid or unpaid, without the consent of the Immigration Department. So business visitor, even though practically you get a 90 day period of stay when you arrived is not the correct immigration status in these circumstances, irrespective of how it works in other countries. Therefore, the question is begged as to how you go about creating a situation where your entity that’s delivering the services is able to properly sponsor the party that’s going to be practically delivering the services for immigration permissions during the time that the training is going to be delivered.
So in effect, what this is going to involve is your South African limited liability company is going to have to establish a representative office here. And, in the throes of establishing that representative office, all the corporate details and information of the South African company will be presented to the Commissioner for Inland Revenue who registers the presence of the representative office.
And then all the similar documentation that’s required for the registration of the representative office is submitted to the Immigration Department in support of a Hong Kong employment visa application, citing the newly established rep office of the South African company as being the sponsor of the permissions for the person that’s going to be delivering the training on the ground; there will have to be a contract of employment between the Rep office entity and the individual person that’s going to be providing the services and the approvability test in relation to that employment contract.
And the party that’s going to be delivering the services, will apply and will need to show that they do possess special skills, knowledge and experience of value not readily available in Hong Kong, but on the basis that party is effectively coming to Hong Kong with the South African entity, possibly even being the same owner of the South African entity that should just be a formality, but you will need an employment contract to cover those bases.
You’ll need to show the contractual paper chain between the various entities, New York into Hong Kong, then Hong Kong into the South African entity, effectively setting up the nexus for the Immigration Department so they can see how this commercial arrangement came into place and how in fact your South African entity and the individual himself who’s going to be delivering the training need to be on the ground for the purposes of fulfilling their obligations under this contract.
Now the question is also begged as to given the episodic nature of the training that’s going to be delivered in Hong Kong. In fact, should you be making an application for a twelve-month limit of stay which will cover all future sort of episodes during that time, or will the episodes be of such an infrequent nature that you’re going to have to make an application each time that you’re intending to come through to Hong Kong to deliver this training.
Of course much will turn on the frequency with which you’re supposed to be delivering the training and in fact exactly what the contractual paperwork between the various parties reveals as being the frequency for the delivery of the training. But as far as you possibly can, if you can make an argument to the department that the episodic nature will be very frequent such that it’s impractical for you to have to keep making a new employment visa application needs time to deliver this temporary training, then you could probably get the Immigration Department to grant you a one-year period of stay to cover all these bases.
So just to recap, there is a solution. It involves your South African company establishing a representative office. You need to make an application for a Hong Kong employment visa to be sponsored by that Hong Kong rep office of the South African company. You’re going to have to disclose all the commercial arrangements that have given rise to your opportunity in Hong Kong. You’re going to have to show to the Immigration Department what the track record of your rep office sponsoring entity is in South Africa. So that’ll require you revealing copies of your financial accounts and another information that will allow the Immigration Department to conclude that the Hong Kong Rep office can in fact be a bona fides sponsor for these foreign – national employment visa permissions to be granted on an episodic or temporary basis.
VisaGeeza.Ai – Making Hong Kong Immigration A Lot Easier
The issue of fiances prior to marriage and how the Hong Kong Immigration Department treat them is often confused so I was happy to receive this question recently.
So, how are fiance’s prior to marriage treated by the Hong Kong Immigration Department?
QUESTION
My fiancé is a Philippine resident working in Hong Kong for the past 4 years. She met with a divorce lawyer and is filing for divorce from her Philippine husband. Will be uncontested. The lawyer from Hong Kong said the divorce will proceed faster if we show the court we filed for a fiancé visa and showed that to the court. Can we file for fiancé visa during the divorce process? I am an American citizen, spent a week there earlier in the year. I qualify on my end.
ANSWER
Unlike countries such as Australia, Canada, America and New Zealand, Hong Kong doesn’t have a formal fiance visa as such. That is an immigration status that’s designed specifically to allow a couple who are engaged to be married in Hong Kong and who need to have some time together in Hong Kong prior to the completion of the legal formalities, which results consequently in a dependent visa upon application; in such instances the Immigration Department will receive an application from the non-resident partner on the basis of an extension to her or his visitor visa pending the completion of the nuptials.
So, effectively this is an out of pocket positive act of discretion on part of the Immigration Department to allow the couple to remain together until the formalisation of the marriage occurs through the complete ceremony. And usually the Immigration Department don’t afford any longer than a three-month period of stay as an absolute maximum to accommodate such fiance type scenarios.
So whilst I can understand what your divorce lawyer is attempting to accomplish, unfortunately there isn’t a formal fiance visa as such that’s going to help you strategically move your fiance’s divorce from her previous partner along, unfortunately. So, yeah, that’s how fiance visas are dealt with in Hong Kong.
VisaGeeza.Ai – Making Hong Kong Immigration A Lot Easier
