Sometimes, people find themselves in a state of ‘administrative flux’ as one employment visa ends and the circumstances for a new employment visa have not yet, for one reason or another, materialised. The question is, however, can you easily return to / be in Hong Kong as a visitor whilst these wrinkles get ironed out over time?
First Published September 3, 2013 – Still of Interest Today
QUESTION
I have been living and working in Hong Kong for the past three years on a valid employment visa which has expired yesterday (2/9/2013).
I finished my employment earlier in the month (I am not continuing with them) and went to Canada for a holiday.
I returned to Hong Kong last night (2nd), hoping to enter on a visitor visa, however I arrived in HK at 10:00 pm they said I could only enter under my employment visa (as it was still valid for another 2 hours).
Therefore this morning, at Immigration Tower I was told I was a technical overstayer (by one day) and they have gave me another 2 days to exit Hong Kong which I plan to do tomorrow via Macau and stay for one night.
On my return on Friday I hope to be given a 3 month visitor visa.
My questions to you are:
(1) Do you think they will allow me to come back in once I have left?
(2) Do you have any advice on what I should say to the admissions officer?
ANSWER
Yes. So, in this instance, I think you’ll find that when you make your reentry back into Hong Kong, the officer at the Macau ferry terminal will assess your bona fide as a visitor on the strength of the fact that you have just had an employment visa expire.
And it’s manifestly clear from the fact of your recent expiry and the trip in and out of Macau and what has happened down immigration tower that you’re just in the process of trying to regularize your immigration status whilst you find yourself in a state of administrative flux between employment positions.
And so you’ll find that the immigration officer won’t really question you too hard as to what your intentions are. And I think the risk of being refused entry is very low indeed. Now, in terms of what you tell the officer, you simply tell him the truth – what brings you back to Hong Kong at this time, what your intentions are, and allow him to assess your bona fide on the strength of your representations. And you’ll find that, ou know, in 99 times out of 100, he’ll just stamp you for 90 days and then you come. I don’t think you’ll have any problems.
Hope this helps.
VisaGeeza.Ai – Making Hong Kong Immigration A Lot Easier
Is it possible to lose your job (your Hong Kong Employment Visa), cruise through 12 months without working here, spend three months away in China studying then make an application for the right of abode with no questions asked?
First Published October 6, 2013 – still of interest today
QUESTION
Hello, I have lived and worked continuously in Hong Kong for the past 6 years, and less than 1 year away from applying for my PR (right to abode application).
I am currently unemployed, but have an active work visa from my previous employer which doesn’t expire until November 2014. I intend to submit my HK PR application in August 2014.
I am keen to study mandarin in China for a short duration of time (less than 3 months), but will be required to apply for an F visa to study there (due to my nationality).
As that time away from Hong Kong is less than six months and I intend to keep my rental flat in Hong Kong, will the application for stay in China for my studies in any way affect my status for the HK PR application next year?
I don’t want in any way to risk jeopardizing being turned down for my right of abode.
ANSWER
The key issue here is that during the time when you have an employment visa, but you don’t hold a job, what has your efforts been during that time to show that you have maintained continuing intent to be settled? So there’s a kind of an expectation that if you stop working, then you’ll be engaging in activities that would allow you to restart work again as soon as the right moment came along, and that you weren’t just sort of cruising your time all the way through to the seven year mark.
So you do have a burden of proving your continuing intent to settle during the time just prior to making your application for the Right of Abode if you don’t have an employment at that time. So if you then factor into that challenge, desire to go and spend three months away in China studying that’s not excellent evidence in of itself, as to your intention when you are leaving Hong Kong because it depends on what you did before you went off to study and what you do immediately upon your return from studying.
So you need to think about that particular challenge and what this next phase of your life represents, how you can articulate that to the Immigration Department, come the time that you have to pass the approvability test for the Right of Abode.
Okay, I hope you found that useful.
VisaGeeza.Ai – Making Hong Kong Immigration A Lot Easier
Documenting proof of the genuine nature of your relationship is a condition precedent to the grant of a dependant visa with the burden of proof decreasing the longer you have been married. Consequently, the newer your relationship / marriage the greater the onus is on you to satisfy ImmD that this relationship does not exist just for visa purposes.
QUESTION
Dear Stephen,
I’m a 41 year old Brit who has been living here for 3.5 years. I am on an employment visa.
My Girlfriend is Indonesian, has been here for 1.5 years and is currently on a 2-year domestic helper contract (and visa) that will end in January 2020
We have been together for 6 months and plan to get married in the next 6-12 months.
The domestic helper visa/girlfriend scheme is obviously out of the question since it’s against the law and I’ve read somewhere else on your site not to get married for visa reasons.
But, knowing immigration’s obvious bias against Filipinos and Indonesians, what will I need to do in order to prove to immigration that we want to marry in order to be together here and start a family and also provide her a better situation? (I’m obviously looking to have her as a dependant).
Just to share our mindset on this: I consider myself a proud immigrant here and not an expat and my girlfriend and I consider that our right to live here is way too important to risk it by “gaming the system”.
My early and cautious assumptions on this, given immigration’s bias, is that they might ask for proofs of relationship so I’ve already started backing up our whatsapp conversations to cover that side of things.
What is the best way to prove to Immigration that we are marrying for the right reasons?
How do we do the right thing ?
Thanks in advance.
ANSWER
Thanks for your question. The right kind of visa in this instance is the dependent visa, and the dependent visa will be available to you at the point of your fiance having become your legal wife through having completed the formalities of a legal marriage. And at that time you will need to be able to satisfy three components to the approvability test.
First, you’ll need to satisfy that you can put a roof over her head and food on her table, because the nature of the visa is such that your fiance will need to show that she’s in a sense dependent on you. So being a good provider is a vitally important part of that.
So you’ll need to show your proof of income and that you’ve got the financial resources to support in your marriage. So, in addition to that, you’re going to have to show that your relationship is a genuine relationship, that you haven’t just sort of come together at the last minute to contrive a situation so that one party can go on to secure a dependent visa.
So the Immigration Department’s policy in relation to the proof of general relationship is that, in actual fact, when you are in a loving, committed, lifelong relationship with a partner, you generate a significant amount of evidence just through the normal pattern of your lives that can speak to the genuine nature of that relationship.
So for example, have you had an engagement party? Are you planning an engagement party? Have you got any proof to show that that has occurred? What paperwork have you got? What photographs exist? In relation to rings, have you got the receipts for the engagement ring? Have you already purchased the wedding rings? If so, show the receipts to the Immigration Department.
Another, good proof of social confirmation that your relationship is genuine is photographs with your respective families, emails going back over time between the two of you, independent written confirmation of friends and other upstanding members of the community.
All of these things, in addition to you having a record of your WhatsApp conversations, will go towards satisfying the Immigration Department that this relationship isn’t flashing the panel and hasn’t come together just for immigration purposes, but it is in fact a genuine, committed relationship that’s going to last your lifetimes.
Now bearing in mind that if she’s going to become your legal dependent, she’s going to need to acquire that status and she can make an application to adjust from foreign domestic helper, through to temporary visitor onto dependent visa while she’s in Hong Kong on the basis that she’s completing her contract.
On the other hand, if, after six months, when her contract comes to an end, you are trying for her to remain in Hong Kong as a visitor until such a time as you can complete the nutcracker, I think you’ll find that the Immigration Department won’t play ball with that.
They’ll give her a one time, two-week only extension, and then she’ll have to leave. She can then come back at any point in time as a visitor, but, the question is begged as to whether or not the Immigration department are going to allow the fact of your intending nuptials to be a good reason for her to remain in Hong Kong as a visitor until you actually complete your wedding formalities accordingly.
So if you’re planning to marry twelve months down the road, anticipate that from month six through to month twelve after her current FDH contract has come to an end, you’re going to struggle to be together on the basis that you have not yet gotten married. But if you do get married before her current limited stay expires as a foreign domestic helper, then you can put an application in to convert directly from foreign domestic helper temporarily through the visitor into dependent visa. So just bear that in mind from a practical and logistics perspective.
And I just want to raise a point here in fairness and in defence of the Immigration Department, because you do state on a couple of occasions that you believe that they are obviously biased against Filipinos and Indonesians. I think it’s important to appreciate that foreign domestic helpers come to Hong Kong on a very strict set of conditions that are embodied in their foreign domestic helper visa contract.
Those terms and conditions were negotiated between the Filipino government and the Hong Kong government, and the Indonesian government and the Hong Kong government as being the satisfactory set of arrangements to protect the interests of their nationals. And from an immigration perspective, the Hong Kong immigration perspective, they administer those international agreements in light of what’s been prescribed, as how the protections for these nationals should be afforded during their time in Hong Kong.
And also the Immigration Department have to deal with hundreds of thousands of Filipinos and Indonesians, entire foreign domestic helpers. It’s the single biggest part of their workload. So when you understand the way that Filipino and Indonesian foreign domestic helpers are here in Hong Kong, and the legal arrangements that have been negotiated internationally for their protection, and the fact that they are the largest single body of migrants that need to be administered on a regular basis, it’s easy to assume that the Immigration Department are biased against these nationals, but they are not. These nationals, in fact, are just part of a very large system that they have bought into and that system prescribes effectively what they can and what they cannot do for immigration purposes. So I do feel that we need to defend the Immigration Department in this respect, because they come under a lot of flack, for situations that are not of their own making at all. And it is, in this instance, just the perception that there is bias, but there is no bias. The reality is it is all governed by agreement, both at the individual level and also at the international level.
VisaGeeza.Ai – Making Hong Kong Immigration A Lot Easier
Thankfully, Hong Kong immigration is not overly bureaucratic or legalistic so what appears to be an intractable problem more often than not is not such a big deal after all… This post details the Dependant Visa Proof of Means
First Published August 24, 2017 – Still of interest today
QUESTION
Hello,
My wife and I were married earlier this year. I am a US citizen, but she is an HK’er.
We are presently in the US and soon plan to apply for a dependent visa.
I am a small business owner in Chicago and have been offered contracts on the condition that we relocate to Hong Kong.
The contracts start in late 2017 and my dependency visa will surely not be ready by then.
We intend to fly in for early December, and to work together in the business.
If we were to set up the business in her name until my dependent visa has been issued, how can she prove her ability to support me, if many of our previous invoices are in my name?
Is there another way around?
I want to do this as cleanly as possible, although I have accepted the fact that I will be spend the winter in Hong Kong on a visitor visa, where only my wife can work.
In short, can I save this contract without jeopardizing the chances of my dependency visa?
ANSWER
At first blush, this immigration question seems to involve a bit of a Catch 22, somewhat of an intractable problem as regards how to satisfy proof of means in the context of a dependent visa application for Hong Kong where a couple are effectively resident outside of Hong Kong and they’re doing business there.
One of them is effectively a Hong Kong permanent resident. The other is not in possession of any immigration status. But as they’re married, they’re going to make an application for a dependent visa, and because their business interests overseas are effectively their means of being able to satisfy proof of financial worth for the purposes of the dependent visa in Hong Kong.
Subsequently, how can that scenario positively impact on the consideration of a dependent visa for the trailing spouse, as it were in this application? Well, for all practical purposes, the answer to this question is to have both of you relocate to Hong Kong as planned. You come as a visitor, put in place the necessary business infrastructure to allow your new business in Hong Kong to be legally carried on here, and in the process of that demonstrate the ownership of that vehicle being in the hands of both yourself and your spouse.
As part of the application for the dependent visa, you’re going to have to show that your wife conceptually can put a roof over your head and also food on your table. And the food on your table piece will be satisfied by the establishment of your business in Hong Kong that you have contracts that are being brought to Hong Kong with you from the US in this instance, show to the Immigration Department your track record in the US previously, and allow the Immigration Department to be satisfied that in the context of you and your wife’s plans for Hong Kong and this business and the confirmed business that you’re bringing with you that will give you the necessary income to satisfy financial means for the purposes of the dependent visa.
Naturally enough, you’ll have to have some resources sitting in your bank account – won’t have to be a great amount, but certainly enough to tide you over until income starts flowing through to your Hong Kong business. And in the context of that particular story, I think you’ll find that the Immigration Department will be satisfied that conceptually your wife has the means to put food on your table and that you are not going to end up being a charge on the state and that will work for the purposes of independent visa applications.
So, as I say, what looks at first blush to be somewhat bureaucratic Catch 22 scenario, how can you satisfy the Immigration Department that you do have the means to be independently active in Hong Kong, both socially and as a family, and also commercially, and if you look at your situation in the round, ensure that you’re compliant on the ground for business purposes when you make your application for the dependent visa here, show your track record prior to coming to Hong Kong, and I think you’ll find the Immigration Department will be more than satisfied with that arrangement. So I don’t think you’ve got too much to worry about.
So, yes, by all means, come as a visitor, put in place the elements of your new business entity in Hong Kong, and then use that reality together with the reality of what you were doing previously in the United States, and how you’re going to be working together in Hong Kong going forward, and show that you’ve got those contracts together for yourself and also that you’ve got some means sitting in your bank account to allow you to tide you over through to you start working in that business and generating income to the new entity.
Okay, that’s it. Straightforward in my view. I hope you find it useful.
VisaGeeza.Ai – Making Hong Kong Immigration A Lot Easier
How to skin the cat of the ‘missing tenancy agreement’ is an oft-faced challenge in the game of the Hong Kong Right of Abode Application after 7 years continuous ordinary residence by a foreign national intending permanent resident.
QUESTION
What happens if I am unable to provide copies of my tenancy agreements in support of my Hong Kong permanent residency application?
I never thought I would still be here for 7 years so I every 2 years I get rid of old documents ie, bank statements, tenancy agreements, utilities etc.
Also for years 3-7 I was living with my ex partner so the tenancy agreement was in her name or her employer’s name.
What can I do? Will utility bills be enough?
Thanks.
ANSWER
Yes, I can completely understand how in your circumstances, you have gone through a regular exercise of throwing out old, not needed documents anymore, and so, seven years down the road you find yourself needing to be able to demonstrate to the immigration department that you’ve been continuously an ordinarily resident here for those seven years, and that you can’t lay your hands on documents to begin to substantiate the actuality of your formal residence.
Well, look at it from this perspective – if you can’t come up with tenancy agreement documents, then the Immigration Department will rely on other aspects of your file to allow themselves to be satisfied that you’ve been resident in Hong Kong, notwithstanding the fact that you can’t, in your instance, come up with formal tenancy agreements because of the pattern of your life and how it was lived.
They know from your movements into and out of Hong Kong how much time that you’ve spent here. And if it’s very clear on all the facts that you have been continuously working for your employers in Hong Kong with resident visa permission, that is employment visa permissions, you’ve paid your taxes throughout those seven years and that fact has been evidenced through the submission of the copies of your tax returns for the requisite period, that any absences from Hong Kong in that time have been of a merely temporary nature and typically not long in time, then it’s easy for the Immigration Department to conclude that unless you were sleeping in a tent, effectively you’ve been laying your head somewhere in Hong Kong safe and secure throughout all of this time.
So, the Immigration Department won’t refuse your application because you can’t come up with the tenancy agreements, but because it is an integral element of the application, my advice to you would be to draw up a schedule and state effectively what your addresses were during the requisite seven years, and the time that you were in those premises. Accordingly, with a short note against each entry explaining why the tenancy agreement isn’t available. So, if you put that schedule together and perhaps you might be able to lay your hands on some other documents, utility bills or telephone bills or whatever, that can speak quite clearly to the fact or testify clearly to the fact that you were ensconced in those addresses at the relevant points in time.
Just to corroborate the explanation on your schedule; then you’ll find that the Immigration Department will usually respond positively to that, and it’ll help you solve your tenancy agreement absence conundrum. Okay, I hope you found this useful. Thanks. Bye.
VisaGeeza.Ai – Making Hong Kong Immigration A Lot Easier
A friend of mine is looking into the idea of residing in Hong Kong. He’s a soon to be traditionally published book author in the United States, and he’s based in another country.
Well, assuming his work becomes a financial hit and reasonably well known in first world countries (not on the scale of Rowling, but I think you get what I mean), do you think he’ll find higher success with the Quality Migrant Admission Scheme?
And assuming he does get to stay in Hong Kong, since his royalties will be coming from a US based company that already deducts their share and US withholding tax, does he need to open up a company there to receive his funds, or can he just open up a Hong Kong bank account and start depositing his cheques there without having to worry about Hong Kong’s Inland Revenue Department swooping down on him?
(I take it they won’t need to since the funds are foreign-sourced, but is this really the case or am I missing something here?)
Thanks again for your time!
ANSWER
Like anything to do with the Quality Migrant Admission Scheme (QMAS), in the final analysis, your guess is as good as mine as to the chances of approvability for any particular skill set or any particular candidate. Given the circumstances surrounding the professional career of your friend, it seems to me that if he’s going to make an application under the QMAS, then it’s going to be under the Achievement-based Points Test rather than the General Point Test,sothat would require the candidate to have a significant amount of peer recognition for his accomplishments, that would suggest that if he’s had one good book, then it may not be sufficient, there could be a requirement to have a track record of publishing; also, I think I suspect depends on the nature of his writing.
So, as I say, that’s just me surmising that there is the possibility of an application under the Achievement-based Points Test; and that would be it, whether he’s going to get approved or not, as I say, your crystal ball is just as good as mine.
In terms of other applications that might be open to him, it seems to me that there probably is only the capital investment entrance scheme, which is a HKD10 million investment for residence program that takes six to eight months to complete.
If he has that level of funds and he’s prepared to lock them into qualifying investment asset classes in the HKSAR, then there’s a very good chance to get unlimited approvals under the capital investment entrance scheme, which would seem living, working, doing whatever he wish quite lawfully in Hong Kong without any further reference to his rationale for being here.
Aside from that, I can’t really envisage there any other immigration status that would be suitable for him if he’s just going to carry on writing and being a self commissioned author. So that’s about the shape of his options as regards immigration. Now in relation to your questions as regards taxation, my expertise is in immigration and not in tax, I’m afraid, so I’m not qualified to answer that question for you.
Okay. I hope you found this helpful nonetheless.
VisaGeeza.Ai – Making Hong Kong Immigration A Lot Easier
Hong Kong is such a draw but sometimes it’s just not going to be…
QUESTION
Hi Stephen,
I am 25 Years old Indian National. I don’t have any kind of degree. I own a business from past seven years in India.
I am applying for jobs from past 4 months but in most of the cases I just get rejected since I can’t speak Cantonese or my employer is not willing to sponsor my Employment Visa.
I have a girl friend in Hong Kong who is PR. I want to shift with her but financially she is not strong enough so that she can sponsor me for Dependent Visa after marriage.
The employers are not ready to sponsor my case cause I don’t have any special talent which can be justified in front of Hong Kong Immigration Department.
I do not qualify for QMAS and lastly it is too late for me to apply for university so that I can come as a student and even if I come as a student, I fear it would be very difficult for me to support myself without a job.
It is very difficult every time to come to Hong Kong on Visitor Visa and leave country after 14 days.
I would like to know is there any special visa category under which I can shift to Hong Kong?
Someone suggested me to apply as a domestic helper or imported worker and once I am there for 2 years I would get enough time to check out other possibilities but getting a job as domestic helper or imported worker seems impossible for Indian National.
Can you please suggest me something which can sort out my issue or I should just forget about starting a new life in Hong Kong.
Please let me know.
Thank You.
ANSWER
Yes, I can understand how extremely frustrated you may be given that you principally don’t have any means for qualifying for any kind of residence visa for Hong Kong. But if you think it through, actually the policy behind the current immigration arrangements in Hong Kong for foreign nationals is designed to ensure, just like every other nation, in fact, that the brightest and the best, if you will, are able to come and contribute to Hong Kong society.
And in that regard, you know, they’re looking for certain qualities from foreign nationals who can take up residence here. And as I said, clearly, unfortunately, in your circumstances, you don’t qualify. So if life in Hong Kong is serious for you, I would suggest that you look closely to the various criteria for approval under the various immigration programs and make sure that you qualify for at least one of them.
Just turning quickly to the idea that you can become a foreign domestic helper or you can participate as imported labour well, effectively, even if you come under the supplemental labour schemeas imported labour, you’re still going to have to have a certain skill set that will be deemed not locally available in Hong Kong.
So given that you have a business background, it’s difficult to understand what might carry the day in that respect and you would still need to have a job offer; and given that foreign domestic helper visas are based on a contract that is bilaterally negotiated between the government and Hong Kong and other governments, and that India not part of that scheme, you would not be able to remain in Hong Kong as a foreign domestic helper in any event.
Sorry to say it doesn’t look very good for you, all told. But thanks for reaching out with your question and letting us know how things have been for you, it’s certainly useful to the leadership generally. Thank you.
VisaGeeza.Ai – Making Hong Kong Immigration A Lot Easier
