How Long Should You Wait After a Rejected Hong Kong Employment Visa Application Before Trying Again?

Posted by The Visa Geeza / in Employment Visas, Refusals & Appeals, Your Question Answered / No responses

Is there a ‘minimum waiting time’ between a rejected Hong Kong employment visa application and  then ‘trying again’?

QUESTION

I have a visa question, I got an offer from a recruitment company in July, they applied the working visa for me, but it got rejected by the end of August.

Now I have a new offer from another recruitment company, they will try to apply the visa for me, if they phrase my qualification better this time, is that possible to be approved?

Is it a good idea to apply again within 6 months?  

Will my first, rejected Hong Kong  employment visa application be a problem the second time around?

ANSWER

Thanks for your question. It’s an interesting topic that hasn’t really been raised in this guide before, so I appreciate you putting it forward to us for sharing on the blog.

There is no minimum waiting time between employment visa applications. The Immigration Department considers such applications on their own merits, and if you’ve been refused for one employer and you’re seeking to make another application, this time for an alternate employer, then the Immigration Department will consider, as I say, that second application entirely on its own merits, irrespective of what passed previously.

So, yes, you’re not going to be advantaged at all in any meaningful sense by, say, waiting for six months. So if you have a job offer and you’re eminently qualified for that job even though you’ve been refused previously, it doesn’t automatically follow that you should wait before your next application.

But I think the real question at play here is the reason why you were denied. From your question, it’s difficult to understand what the circumstances are that could have led to that refusal; it may be, for example, that because you don’t have a university degree, the Immigration Department don’t deem you to be a professional.

On the other hand, you may have a university degree, but you may not have at least two years post graduation working experience in the managerial or supervisory capacity. These are two good reasons for why you might have been denied the first time around. And, even if you make a second application with a new employer, those challenges will not be overcome. They still subsist and the Immigration department will not be deeming you as a professional, so you won’t get approved.

On the other hand, you may be a professional under the policy, but the Immigration Department may not like the sponsor, or they may not believe that the sponsor is a suitable and credible employer.

The sponsor may, for example, have a track record of securing employment visas for a very large number of expatriates with almost no local employment opportunities being created, and they may feel that the local workforce is not being potentially advantaged as a result of allowing an employer to continuously sponsor on an unlimited basis foreign nationals for employment visa permissions.

I’m just stabbing in the dark here, of course, because I don’t have any detailed information as to what the reasons might be. But in very general terms, the refusal could lie at your feet, it could lie at the feet of your old employer; and then when you take an application for a new employee to the Immigration Department, it may be that you’ll be successful; that time you could have been denied also on the grounds of compensation arrangements, not receiving the necessary minimums to be deemed a professional under the policy.

So lots of things in play that could impact on your initial application, and then you could find themselves still at play in your subsequent application. So, all things considered, no, don’t be restrained from making a subsequent application because you think your chances will be improved as a result of you waiting six months.

Rather do a searching assessment of whether you’re actually approvable yourself and whether the sponsor is deemed a suitable and credible sponsor for the purposes of the application. And of course, all things considered, could a local person be expected to take up that role? And, do you have the necessary experience to boot in order to fulfil that job to the exclusion of a local person doing that work?

Okay, I hope you found that useful.

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Can You Expect The Hong Kong Immigration Department To Be Flexible In A Work Visa Application If You Expect To Qualify For The Right Of Abode A Few Short Weeks Later?

Posted by The Visa Geeza / in Employment Visas, Long Stay & PR, Your Question Answered / 4 responses

It’s important to undertake one application at a time en route to your eventual right of abode in Hong Kong…

QUESTION

Hi. I need to extend my IANG visa by the end of July. As of the second week in September I will have been in Hong Kong for 7 years, thus eligible for permanent residency.

I currently do not have a employer sponsor. In negotiating an employment contract (I’m a consultant with no desire to start my own firm) it may be favourable to have a a contract term of 59 days, excluding my potential employer from needing to start an MPF account.

However, would Immigration look unfavourably on that contract term of less than one full year?  I basically need an IANG visa for the “gap weeks” of August 2014 and first week of September 2014 as well as employment sponsor.

Your help is greatly appreciated.

ANSWER

So as I read it, in this scenario you’re seeking to adjust your status from student through to employment status under the Immigration Arrangements for Non-local Graduates (IANG).

Applications for working permissions under the Immigration Arrangements for Non-local Graduates are favourably considered on the strength that you have a suitable employer and that you’ve got a genuine job offer and that the sponsor (in this case, your employer) is definitely suitable and is credible.

Now, on the basis that you can muster that scenario for yourself, that application to take up employment for that employer will be, as I say, favourably considered and you’ll be granted a one year limit of stay without any preconditions. And because what you’re seeking to do in a sense is to bridge the gap over the course of the next few weeks to the point where you will have been continuously and ordinarily residence in Hong Kong for the seven years required for the right of abode.

A question is begged as to the nature of the employment relationship that you  propose to the Immigration Department for the purposes of IANG and you’ve suggested a 59-day employment contract and that would be suitable, I think, as you stated, for the potential employer because of MPF considerations and all that kind of good stuff.

But I think you’re probably looking at it in quite a convoluted and overly complex manner because effectively most employment contracts in Hong Kong are indefinite term. So as long as you go to the Immigration Department with a genuine offer of employment from a suitable and credible sponsor and so long as the employment contract details that you’re suitable for the position and that the salary that you’re going to be beying paid is broadly commensurate with what’s charged in Hong Kong, then the Immigration Department won’t look askance at that contract.

If, as I say, it’s a genuine offer and you are prepared to deploy for a period of time under that offer because if it’s indefinite term, what it means is that by the time you have finalised your approval under IANG and then moved on to make your application for the right of abode at the point of your right of abode being approved, all your conditions attached to your current stay in Hong Kong will be removed. So you’ll then be able to freely negotiate an end to your current employment arrangements with that sponsor and move through into an independent contractor or some kind of freelance arrangement, which is really what you’re hoping to achieve.

So my advice would be to go to an employer and state that what you’re really looking for is an interim employment, and that until such a time as your right of abode application is approved, whereupon you’ll be free to renegotiate your terms of engagement with them. You will be engaged with them on an indefinite term basis, which is, in a sense, standard practise in Hong Kong in any event, and that way you’ll be able to achieve the objective that you’re looking for without too much fuss or kerfuffle, I suspect.

The important thing to appreciate is that the Immigration Department, they’re not going to cut you any slack in your initial application just because you may be eligible to make an application for the right of abode subsequently, because from their perspective, they’re not going to do any assessment as to your eligibility of right of abode. So they’re never going to know whether or not you will get approved under that application. So they’d never take it into consideration. What you need to do is to focus on this particular challenge, and don’t worry so much about the next particular challenge, in this case, your right of abode application.

So that’s the way that I’d play it. And I think you’ll probably be successful all the way through.

Okay, good luck.

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Mainland Travel Permits for Non Chinese PRs | RTHK3 Backchat

Posted by The Visa Geeza / in Long Stay & PR, Musing / 2 responses

Mainland Travel Permits for Non Chinese PRs

China Introduces 5-Year Mainland Travel Permit for Foreign Permanent Residents of Hong Kong and Macau

Unless you’re a PR of Hong Kong and have been living under a rock this last week, you will no doubt have caught the buzz around Hong Kong at the moment about visa-free access to China for Non Chinese PRs.

Starting July 10, 2024, foreign permanent residents of Hong Kong and Macao can apply for a five-year multi-entry Mainland Travel Permit. This initiative is designed to facilitate travel within the Greater Bay Area for purposes such as investment, family visits, tourism, and business. The permit allows stays of up to 90 days per visit but does not permit working, studying, or engaging in journalism. Applications must be submitted in person at designated China Travel Service offices with the required documentation, and processing takes up to 20 working days.

Eligibility and Requirements

Eligible applicants include foreign permanent residents of Hong Kong and Macao who hold valid permanent resident ID cards. The application process requires the submission of relevant documents, including proof of identity, permanent residency status, and reasons for travel. The permit is intended to promote the integration of the Greater Bay Area, enhancing connectivity and cooperation between Hong Kong, Macao, and Mainland China.

Application Process

Applicants must visit designated China Travel Service offices in Hong Kong or Macao to submit their applications. Required documents include valid identification, proof of permanent residency, and any additional documents supporting the purpose of travel. The processing time for the permit is up to 20 working days, and applicants will be notified upon approval.

Duration and Conditions

The Mainland Travel Permit for Foreign Permanent Residents of Hong Kong and Macao allows multiple entries to Mainland China over a period of five years. Each visit can last up to 90 days. However, the permit holders are not allowed to work, study, or engage in journalistic activities while in Mainland China. Violating these conditions may result in penalties, including revocation of the permit.

This new policy reflects China’s efforts to streamline travel procedures and enhance the integration of the Greater Bay Area. By providing a convenient travel option for foreign permanent residents of Hong Kong and Macao, the initiative aims to strengthen economic ties and promote cultural exchange within the region.

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I spoke about this on RTHK Radio 3 Backchat yesterday. You can listen here.

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Can You Use The Foreign Domestic Helper Visa To Employ Your Mother In Hong Kong?

Posted by The Visa Geeza / in Employment Visas, Musing, Special Programmes, Your Question Answered / 2 responses

The Hong Kong Immigration Department are not especially receptive to what can appear to be family reunion via the back door…

Can you use the Foreign Domestic Helper visa to employ your mother in Hong Kong?

QUESTION

Hello,

My wife and I are on work visas in Hong Kong and are expecting a baby in the Autumn.

My wife would like to keep working, and wants to bring her mother over (she is from Central America) to look after the baby, possibly for up to a year.

Her mother would only be eligible for a 30-day visitor visa.

Could we employ her as a domestic helper?

Do we have any other options?

Thanks!

ANSWER

Whilst it’s a perfectly logical conclusion to draw that it would make sense to employ your mother or your mother in law as a foreign domestic helper sponsored by you in Hong Kong, unfortunately such an approach won’t hold water with the Immigration Department for a number of reasons. One set of reasons that are specific to the nature of the foreign domestic helper visa and the second reason relates to the nationality of your mother dealing with the nationality issue.

First, the foreign domestic helper visa has been constructed in Hong Kong by the Immigration Department as a result of a series of bilateral negotiations between a variety of different countries that are prepared to allow their nationals to come to Hong Kong to work under very strict conditions as foreign domestic helpers. And principally in this regard strict conditions are relating to the protection of  the interests of the nationals that are going to be coming to do the work under foreign domestic helper visas. So, if you’re from, or your wife’s mother is from a country that does not have such a bilaterally negotiated arrangements in place, then citizens of that country cannot participate in the foreign domestic helper programme, unfortunately.

So given that there are no countries in Central America today that have got a bilaterally negotiated arrangement in place, the foreign domestic helper visa will not be available to her, end of story, unfortunately. But in terms of what the Immigration Department do when they receive applications from very close relatives, effectively they look at these applications with a very let’s say cynical set of eyes because whilst it makes perfect sense to want to have a mother or a mother in law in Hong Kong taking care of a new grandchild, especially during the first year, effectively the Immigration Department will see this as an application for family reunion by the back door because there’s non-permanent residents seeking to have their mother, or a parent physically present in Hong Kong with them, that means that you precluded from  sponsoring such a dependent visa for that would be the visa type that you would normally use because the dependent visa for a parent normally requires the sponsor to be a permanent identity card holder and the parent to be over 60 years of age and with clear proof of dependency.

And in your circumstances this is obviously not going to apply. So the Immigration Department, for another reason are not going to be receptive to an application for a foreign domestic helper visa notwithstanding the fact that there is an expectation that there is going to be an arm’s length commercial arrangement between the two parties in relation to the provision of employment services. Clearly, where you have a family member that’s going to be providing those services, then this is not going to be a typical arm’s length commercial arrangement. So now that we’ve kind of sort of buried the idea that the foreign domestic help of visa might work for you in your circumstances, what are the other options that are available to you?

Well, you could make, and I would suggest that you do this in any event, make an application for an entry visa for your mother in law to come and join you for an extended period of time on the strength of the fact that you are having a child, and it would be exceptionally useful to you to be able to have your mother physically present in Hong Kong for a few months at least to be able to help out with the new child rearing duties. And you do this by making a visitor visa application, as I say, on an entry visa that is not relying on the 30 days that you are granted upon arrival at the airport, but actually setting out in detail all the circumstances that are giving rise to you seeking to sponsor an extended visitor visa for your mother in law.

You may get a three-month limit of stay depending on how the Immigration Department respond to the application. Additionally, you could conceptually make such an entra visa application for her let her arrive and enter on that perhaps, 60 or 90 day limit of stay, depending what the immigration department give you.

And then at the end of that limit of stay, she could make an exit and then reenter again and get another 30 days, and in that intervening period you could make another application for another entry visa, and again get another 60 or another 90 days, and at the end of that limit of stay you could make another exit and possibly do that twice more before you get to the kind of magic number that the immigration department hold to be quite dear.

And that is, a visitor should not be spending more than half of their time in Hong Kong over the course of a twelve month given period. So I think you’re probably going to be able to finagle possibly six or seven months as visitor visa status for your mother in law in those circumstances.

Not exactly twelve months I appreciate, but if you work the system in a good and logical way and set out all the facts surrounding the need for the need for extended visitor status for your mother and the fact that you’re clearly going to be responsible for her health and welfare while she’s here, I think you’ll find that you’ll end up getting a reasonable amount of time that will allow you to be together during these important months, whether you get a full year or not.

Difficult to say, I would suspect probably not. You’ll be testing the Immigration Department’s patience somewhat, if you made a third or a fourth application for an intra visa on that basis; but you know, the Immigration Department appreciate that this is an important time for you and wonder, actually, what’s wrong with having your mother in Hong Kong, helping you raise your new grandchild in the early months of his or her arrival in Hong Kong.

It’s just a matter of working the process, setting out all the facts, allowing the Immigration Department to understand what the reasons are for this extended period of stay in Hong Kong as a visitor, and I think you’ll find that, all things considered, as far as they’re able to help you, they probably will do so.

Okay, I’ve appended the link to the visitor visa information on the Hong Kong visa handbook that will help you navigate the labyrinth of the visitor visa application process that you’ll no doubt be going through. And also, I hope you found this useful.

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Is It Ever Possible To Swap A Foreign Domestic Helper Visa Into A Regular Employment Visa In Hong Kong?

Posted by The Visa Geeza / in Employment Visas, Feature Article, Your Question Answered / 31 responses

Can you swap a Foreign Domestic Helper visa into a Regular employment visa? This is a reasonable question that has an obvious answer although not for the reasons you might typically expect. In 20 years of practising Hong Kong visa and immigration consultancy, the only successful change of status application from FDH to residence visa that I have ever experienced, naturally enough, is from FDH to dependant visa where there has been a legal marriage.

QUESTION

“I have an Indonesian furniture retail and design store in Aberdeen.  I was wondering if I could apply for a work visa for an existing domestic helper to come and work in my business. My shop is specialized in Indonesian furniture, both standard design and also bespoke.

She is Indonesian and has immense knowledge and skills in this field, having been educated to Bachelor level in design and with 7 years of experience working for a producer in Bali. Our store is an interactive and educative shop where we educate the local community on design possibilities and ways to get excellent value for money in buying furniture from Indonesia.

I have advertised locally extensively for a shop assistant but no great response. I got only one response and have had to hire her despite the person not being qualified.  It has been very hard to recruit.

This FDH is good and has good qualifications. Is it possible to apply for a work visa for my business?”

ANSWER

This question actually comes up more often than you might imagine, and unfortunately the answer is – it’s not possible to convert from a foreign domestic helper visa through to an employment visa issued under the General Employment Policy. You see, the problem really is twofold. Firstly, it is now impossible to secure employment visa permissions for any kind of retail sales position in Hong Kong simply because, let’s face it, Hong Kong is driven by primarily a Chinese population and the retail industry as such is serviced primarily by a Chinese population.

So, in principle, in our experience it’s been very difficult to persuade the Immigration Department of the merits of issuing an employment visa under the General Employment Policy for any kind of retail position. So that’s problem number one. Problem number two actually drives to the heart of the foreign domestic help visa permissions that your helper is holding.

You see, in securing the foreign domestic helper visa initially, she had to satisfy, believe it or not, the Immigration Department that she was kind of qualified to be a foreign domestic helper. And so the profile which the Immigration Department has on her is in relation to providing domestic duties.

So now if you were to go back to the Immigration Department and argue that, notwithstanding, she is actually incredibly experienced in the design and the display of retail furniture in an Indonesian context, the Immigration Department, I think, would be loathe to buy into that anticipating that there may be misrepresentations either on the case of the foreign domestic helper visa application, or in fact on this application where you’re now stating that she is qualified to undertake this retail job.

I think thirdly, the problem is that retail jobs typically don’t command the kind of salaries that the Immigration Department expects to see for probability purposes under the General Employment Policy. So even if the first two challenges could be overcome, you’d still be looking at paying this lady in the region of HKD200,000 a month for the work that she’s doing for you. Whilst that might be possible, I suspect you’re going to probably struggle tremendously under the first two challenges that we’ve already discussed.

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HIV Health Checks & Your Hong Kong Visa Application

Posted by The Visa Geeza / in Employment Visas, Family Visas, Feature Article, Investment Visas, Long Stay & PR, Special Programmes, Visitor Visas, Your Question Answered / 24 responses

More than 20 years in the business of Hong Kong immigration and this is the first time I can remember this question ever being raised. So, now you know how to go about HIV Health Checks Hong Kong Visa Application!

QUESTION

Hi Stephen,

I do not see this issue addressed on your web site (which, by the way, is fantastic).

What are the medical requirements for a Canadian citizen applying for a Hong Kong work visa (sponsored through current employer)? 

Does Hong Kong require HIV testing or other testing, and if so, can those tests be done in the home country?  How will the immigration authorities treat an applicant who is HIV+?

Thanks.

ANSWER

Interestingly, unlike most other first world jurisdictions, Hong Kong doesn’t actually have any requirement for health status cheques as part and parcel of the Hong Kong immigration process that covers every single aspect of Hong Kong immigration, from visitor visas through to temporary residence visas, all the way up to, indeed the Right of Abode and becoming permanent residents.

So in relation to your health status, when you make an application, the entire process is silent as to health, so it doesn’t appear in the equation. So don’t have any concerns about the status of your health in any way impinging your ability to become a contributing member to Hong Kong society.

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Training, Employment Or Working Holiday – What’s The Best Hong Kong Visa Option For A Recently Graduated British National?

Posted by The Visa Geeza / in Employment Visas, Special Programmes, Your Question Answered / No responses

What’s the Best Hong Kong Visa Option for a Recently Graduated British National?

 

QUESTION

Hi Stephen,

From  May through November 2013 I was employed in a well known and large company in Hong Kong under the training visa for a period of 6 months.

During the end of this tenure the company decided to offer me a permanent position however I had to apply for this job under the employment visa.

Unfortunately this was rejected, as the Immigration Department feel this is a job that can be taken up locally.

I’m 23 years old with one years work experience after graduating from university but really want to stay in Hong Kong now I have embedded myself within the team I was working in and learning all the appropriate skills and practices for the role I was undertaking.

I have now become a highly valued member of my working team.

I want to ask whether already having a training visa then having a working visa rejected would affect my chances of  getting a working holiday visa?

I also have the option to move to Dubai where I have been granted a visa which can be used as a stop gap to get more experience then look to re-apply in Hong Kong.

But as my primary desire is to stay in Hong Kong can I use the working holiday visa as an additional years experience until the time comes that I need to re-apply for a working visa next year?

And how should I re-apply for that differently?

Can you kindly advise what is the best course of action?

Thanks

ANSWER

In the vast majority of circumstances, whenever you have been able to secure a training visa, usually for six months, sometimes for a maximum of twelve months, depending on the nature of the training that you’re due to receive, it is almost impossible to swap from a training visa through to an employment visa because the issue of the training visa was done on the basis that you would acquire the training and then you would leave.

So it’s natural in many instances where you have undergone that period of training, you’ve inculcated yourself into the working fabric of your team there and clearly your manager at the end of the training, doesn’t want to lose you, recognises your talent, wants you to remain in Hong Kong to work full time, and so you make an application for an employment visa.

Now, two challenges associated with that stated is that as part of your training visa application, there is an undertaking that you will leave Hong Kong at the end of the period of training. And the second challenge is that, to actually convert to an employment visa, you have to pass the employment visa provability test, which is you need to show you possess special skills, knowledge and experience of value to and not readily available in Hong Kong.

And normally this requires, at a very minimum, for you to be a university graduate with two years post graduation working experience in a supervisor in a managerial capacity. And normally if you’re in a training visa situation, by implication you’re not managing anybody or supervising anybody. Quite the contrary, you’re on the receiving end of such management and such supervision.

So when you do make that application to a justice status from training visa to employment visa, uh, in your circumstances, it’s quite, uh, normal to expect that you will be, um, refused in that application. So now the question is begged as to how can you continue to remain in Hong Kong so that you can do the things that you’re doing now.

Fortunately, because of the introduction of british nationals to the list of, uh, qualifying nationals under the working holiday scheme, as of December 2013, you can apply for a working holiday visa which will give you a twelve month limit of staying, uh, and you’ll be able to work for any single employer for twelve months.

So the fact that you’ve had a prior employment visa refused and the fact that you’ve previously held a training visa should not, in normal circumstances, preclude you from accessing the working holiday visa on the basis that you do qualify for the working holiday visa in your own right, which is that you’re under 30 years of age, you’ve got about HKD20,000 in your bank account and you’ve got the necessary medical insurance to cover your staying as a working visa holder in Hong Kong.

And that there’s still a quota available to you. That is that a lot of other British nationals haven’t gotten ahead of you and stolen your opportunity to acquire one of those visas because of the number that are issued each year. So have no fear that you can’t get a working holiday visa so long as there’s quota available and you can meet the conditions.

And then once you’ve got your working holiday visa, you can certainly rejoin your working team, and away you go, so that will then take you twelve months down the road. And then the issue is, well, how do you then get from a working holiday visa through to an employment visa again. And will, in all the circumstances, the time that you spent in Hong Kong as a training visa holder and the twelve months that you had as a working holiday visa holder, will all of that again qualify you, ostensibly for the minimum two years post graduation working experience in managerial or supervisory capacity. That’s a question that can really only be answered at the time that you make your next application, depending on effectively what’s gone on in, in all the time that you were holding the working holiday visa. And frankly, whether or not even one year hence, you’ll be able to argue to the Immigration Department that your skills can’t be found locally, because it may well be that the work that you do there could clearly be a ready pool of local employees, potential local employees, new graduates from university or others that have the necessary skills in the industry that you’re working in department might not be persuaded in any event, that given the nature of the work that you do, that work can’t be uptaken by somebody from within the local workforce.

So that’s always a risk and it’s not something that I can give you any concrete advice upon at this stage in the game. All that I can suggest is that once your working holiday visa expires, go back to the immigration department with a new application for an employment visa and argue your case stridently and forthrightly and see what they make of it as another option.

Given that you do seem to have the ability to go off, in this instance to Dubai, to what I assume is a group company to work there, if all else fails, you could  secure employment in Dubai and go spend maybe a year or two in Dubai working for that group company, building up your knowledge, building up your experience, ensure that experience is gained in managing and supervising others and then at the end of that period, you make an application again to transfer back to Hong Kong from that Dubai Group company on an intercompany transferee basis.

And nine times out of ten, if it is a straightforward intercompany transferee application for an employment visa where you clearly now have the necessary post graduation working experience and that given the nature of the work that you’ve been doing for the group company in Dubai, it’s clear that a local person can’t be expected to uptake that work, then you stand an improved chance of approval next time around on the basis that you have been an intercompany transferee.

So all of this sounds really quite long and convoluted and complex, but, strategically, you do have a pathway to your ultimate end game, which is to be working full time, lawfully, for your proposed employer in Hong Kong, doing the work that you clearly love to do; but, you’ve still got a few sort of months ahead of you and a few applications ahead of you before,  you get the security and comfort of knowing that finally, the Immigration Department deem you professional for the purpose of the general employment policy.

And you’ve created the circumstances where you can definitively argue that the work that you’re going to be doing in Hong Kong can’t be taken up by somebody locally. Okay, I hope you found that useful.

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Can I Work As An Independant Contractor In Hong Kong If I Hold A Working Holiday Visa?

How Hard Is It To Transfer From A Hong Kong Working Holiday Visa To A Full Employment Visa?

Am I Allowed To Work Full Time Even Though I Only Have A One Year Hong Kong Working Holiday Visa?

Can I Hold A Second Job While In Hong Kong Working Under A Training Visa?

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